illegal immigration debate
This debate Intensified in the United States since Donald Trump became President. There are estimated 11 million undocumented immigrants in the US, and controversy around the inflow and outflow of that population is at an all time high.
On DebateIsland, there is a dedicated section on immigration at
http://www.DebateIsland.com/categories/immigrationThe most popular topic has been if the wall should be build.
There are good resources on this topic of illegal immigration at
http://immigration.procon.org And
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_immigration_to_the_United_States The big 2 topics part of the debate include
1) the wall
2) deportations
There is also a lot of confusion if those supporting anti-illegal immigration are racists or act anti-humane. Many of the proponents of deportations clarify that they are not against immigration, but against illegal immigration.
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if we are to fix the root cause of the issue we need to address both the existing undocumented immigrants and the inflow of new ones.
Donald Trump's plan to build the wall will sigificantly limit the inflow, and his deportations (strarting with those who have criminal records) will improve the outflow.
Trump is taking this illegal immigration debate, and making it real. That is much more than we can say for Obama administration, who made the problem much worse in his 8 year of tenure as the President.
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1) deportations are too ambiguous and are not realistic nor scalable for 11 million undocumented immigrants, where many of them are entrenched here with kids.
2) The Wall is just too expensive at the time we are struggling with major debt and financial issues
- Walt Disney
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I don't support it.
undocumented immigrants is a much more complex problem than just getting thrown out without consideration. However they got here, we need to be more considered given the size of illegal immigrant population. 11 million is a hugh number.
the wall will cost too much money, and likely will just fill pockets of Trump's construction friends. I would vote for the wall if it would be free, but it's far from that.
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illegal immigration debate
it shows strong argument for the Anti-illegal immigration sidehorrific story of how a 14-year-old girl identified as the victim was walking down the Rockville High School hallway when she was forcibly dragged into a bathroom stall by 18-year-old Henry Sanchez and 17-year-old Jose Montano. 2 illegal immigrants.
Last March, two illegal immigrants from Honduras repeatedly raped a 12-year-old girl.
Adding insult to injury, the Montgomery County schools board’s website offers a Spanish-language page affirming that illegals should feel “safe and welcome” in their classrooms – adding that illegals have a constitutional right to a public school education.
The consolation and assurance to the recent 14-year-old victim, her family, and citizens whose sense of security has once again been shaken by illegal-immigrant crime? A letter home to parents.
https://www.conservativereview.com/commentary/2017/03/this-horrifying-teen-rape-case-exposes-all-thats-wrong-with-the-illegal-immigration-debate#sthash.YdDCH1O9.dpuf  Considerate: 69%  
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It is very frustration living in a State and City who thinks they are above enforcing Federal Immigration Laws; however, if choose to break a law we pay for the crime and so should each of these politicians think they can just pick an choose which laws to abide by. Too many people are being hurt and they just protect these illegal immigrants over actual people who are trying to abide by the law. They say they are protecting all of their citizens, but they are not. We are a nation of immigrants; however, we are nations of laws.
I heard what happened to the 14 year old girl who was raped and one of the guys was an illegal immigrant - he needs to be deported. Families have lost loved ones and had their families broken up by illegal immigrants who murdered a son, a daughter, a sister, a father, a mother, and so forth. Yes, they are so concerned about breaking up families where an illegal immigrant committed a serious crime? I just don't get it!
It will be difficult to decide who will be deported after the illegal immigrants who committed crimes. I personally think, the Federal Government will need to find out how long they have been here (like more than 8 years) and they have to pay a fine, get a green card to get a job, and they have to work to become a citizen. I also believe if they do not want to give up their allegiance to their country than they can take their family and go back home. This is what people do when they become a citizen and it is in our constitution.
The wall needs to be built and the border needs to be enforced...this needs to happen first before starting to deport unless we know for sure someone did commit a crime.
I love my country and I would want people who immigrate here love this country as well and assimilate to our values and culture; however, they can definitely have their culture as well. America is about customs.
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I also agree that we should deport these specific criminals who were involved in these violent crimes. We can also debate if Trump's campaign of initial deportations of undocumented immigrants with criminal records is warranted. I personally argue that it is not.
Mass Deportation of 11 million undocumented immigrants though is a much more complex topic than something we can influence with isolated cases like these.
I know that many Trump supporters object to Media unfairly attacking Trump, but in this case anti-immigration supporters are unfairly generalizing 11 million people via just a few bad apples.
- Walt Disney
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the key point is that the illegal immigrants are not assimilated in US, they still live in their country, their language, and they are not part of the United States. They are a tax burden to the tax payers, get free healthcare, education, and when you read about such violent crimes, it is must wrong.
All illegal immigrants with any sort of criminal records should be deported immediately, consistent with Trump deportations. Yes, there will be some noise, but that is better than hearing cases like in this article.
The rest should be deportd back over the next few years. They key is that it is illegal immigration and to odin1 point - while our country has been built on immigrants, the due were paid and it was part of legal immigration. I would like to remind others, that it is an
illegal immigration debate
not justimmigration debate
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i am saying that given we have 11 million undocumented immigrants we cannot just treat them as animals and need to have a humane strategy to deal with the issue. I like an approach that combines some deportations after thorough vetting of criminal activity, and at the same time a path to citizenship, rewarding the right behavior. For such a complex problem, a single-sided view on just deporting everyone is inhumane.
I am also not against of concept of the wall if it will be effective, but I just don't think it will be and will cost too much for the tax payers
- Walt Disney
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illegal immigration debate has so many shades, but in general I am biased towards a proactive action-oriented approach.
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Con
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surely unconditionally saying that 100% of illegal Immigrants are not useful is wrong, so I agree with some of your examples.
That said, the fact is that mostly illegal immigrants don't pay taxes and 11 million undocumented immigrants is a burden on US economic and social system.
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@natbarons Imagine if you came here and brought the worst of your native country with you, as all too many illegals do; for instance;
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/mar/22/high-school-rape-in-maryland-shows-need-for-toughe/
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/03/21/authorities-raid-suspected-cockfighting-site-in-detroit/
Don't US citizens deserve protection from people who don't respect our laws?
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The employers of ''illegals'' cannot deduct nor pay the just and lawful taxes from the earnings of this black market workforce due to the I.R.S.
The self employed ''illegals'' can enjoy the profits from trading within a stable and buoyant economy without contributing anything to the cost of the infrastructure or the fiscal purse.
Successive administrations, but in particular the Democrats, have permitted the illegal immigrant problem to become nigh on insurmountable.
However, a start will have to be made for the repatriation of the undesirable 'illegals'' such as the criminals and the benefit parasites.
In addition to this every step to stem the flow of unregulated immigration must commence forthwith.
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1. Our borders represent, firstly and foremost, the security of our Nation. A breach, bypass, violation or transgression of our border is also the same of our National Security.
2. Our borders aren't JUST there for physical security (Keeping out criminals, violent or otherwise). Our borders are also supposed to protect us from diseases that are rampant in other countries but generally don't exist in the U.S. There are parts of the world were "The Plague" still exists...that's right, the Black Death is still being passed along from person to person in 3rd world countries across the globe. Ebola, Smallpox, Dengue Fever, Tuberculosis, Malaria. I know I certainly wouldn't want my children to be infected with Ebola or The Plague simply because my Neighbor has brought illegal immigrants into his home, infected his children and then sent them to school with mine.
3. Lastly and least importantly, I don't believe that I or my fellow American Citizen should be burdened in any way, shape or form because of the addition of illegal immigrants in my Country. Illegal immigrants draw upon subsidized programs that are paid for with tax dollars...which are my dollars.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
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About the wall, it's just a huge waste of money, don't underestimate the intelligence of immigrants, they will find ways across it. The money that would go into the wall could be used for more useful things like charities or the national debt.
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while I agree that stereotypes are not always true - I think you are not confronting the issue that they came here illegally. That's not fair to immigrants who waited their turn. It's not fair to american tax payers either, as illegal immigrants dont oay taxes and can get free urgent medical care (which we ultimately pay for).
The wall argument I don't buy. Sure they will find some way, but it will limit the inflow.
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They pay the taxes on food and all sorts of other goods don't they? Besides, they have less job opportunities, they can't make as much money as legal citizens because they don't have a social security number. They want a better life for their children and themselves. Do you know how much most of the everyday items cost in Mexico? Way more than most can afford. They don't have nice comfortable houses, they don't have safe living conditions, their president is constantly taking their money and using it to buy stuff for himself., Most illegal immigrants came to America illegally because don't have time, they need somewhere safe to live immediately. The conditions they live in isn't a joke, they might not even be alive at the time they get accepted.
They do have to pay for medical care, the hospital doesn't care whether you're legal or not, they're going to charge you for the medical treatment you received.
Finally, about the wall, I have to agree with you on that, it will most likely limit the inflow.
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All data and studies point towards undocumented immigrants being less likely to commit crimes then natives[1].
A 2008 report finds that US born men are 10 times more likely to be incarcerated and this is even more of a discrepancy when you realize immigrants can be jailed just for existence[2].
What you were doing is a logical fallacy called cherry picking. Stop doing it.
[1]https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/criminalization-immigration-united-states
[2]http://mediamatters.org/research/201106010027
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2) In 1965 America kicked out millions of Mexican farm workers, the result was lower wages and employment for Americans[2].
3) Low skilled immigrants increase the economic well being of natives by 1%[3].
4) Cities with higher low skilled immigrant populations had natives with a 40% less chance of becoming unemployed[4.
Fact is immigration is beneficial for the country. There is zero intelligent logical reason to oppose it especially wasting billions of a ignorant wall. Now you know why intelligent people laugh at bigoted Trumpers.
[1]https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/6/23/15855342/immigrants-wages-trump-economics-mariel-boatlift-hispanic-cuban
[2]http://voxeu.org/article/impact-immigration-barriers-native-workers
[3]http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2014/08/how-immigration-benefits-natives.html
[4]http://owenzidar.wordpress.com/2013/08/14/immigrants-equilibrate-local-labor-markets-evidence-from-the-great-recession/
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http://www.dailywire.com/news/10155/9-things-you-need-know-about-illegal-immigration-aaron-bandler
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I don't think this debate is about immigration. Immigration is a beautiful thing. What we're talking about are the people who circumvented the immigration process entirely...spitting upon our laws in the process. This debate is about "Illegal" immigration.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
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I'd like to clarify that illegal immigrants DO pay taxes and they DO pay for healthcare
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1. Live in poverty
2. Can't get a proper education, most aren't able to finch middle school, and their president does not care
3. Can't get proper healthcare unless they pay for it first, they do NOT have that much money
The requirements to get into America are:
1. have a proper job
2. Must have finished high school
3. Make enough money a year (I forgot the amount of money needed, but it was definitely more that the average Mexican could make in a year
It's not that they don't want to wait their turn, It's that they aren't able to get the privileges we get in our own country, and those very things they don't get is what the need to get to be able to come in legally.
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You can't give exceptions to certain people. This threatens national security. The borders are for keeping us safe. If we keep making exceptions then our security will eventually crumble. Look at Germany.
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If I understand you correctly, these people cannot meet our Nation's standards for immigration, so we should be ok with them breaking our laws and coming over anyway? The U.S. Department of Immigration puts our legal immigration totals at over 1,000,000 per year since 2000. The department also cites that we have more Immigrants in the U.S. today than ever before in History, there are approximately 37,000,000 1st generation Immigrants in the U.S. today. So if what you're saying is correct and our standards are just too high for these people...then why are more people Legally gaining Citizenship Status in the U.S. today than ever before? Were our standards somehow raised and subsequently created to be more difficult and if so...how are we seeing these immigration numbers?
Meanwhile, London is the Tuberculosis capital of Europe and stands as a shining example of what happens when you fail to discriminate in regards to immigrants coming into your country from impoverished parts of the world. Take a wild guess as to when the last time any Illegal Immigrant from Mexico got a medical screening BEFORE they crossed into the U.S.
"There's going to be a special place in Hell for people who spread lies through the veil of logical fallacies disguised as rational argument".
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Yes I agree with Vaulk here. The only reason the immigrants aren't much of a problem here as of now is because they are illegal. If you allow them to come over, then the factors change. Since the immigrants are illegal, the circumstances we see now are happening. If we make them legal, then the circumstances change. We have no idea what would happen. This is why we should look at past and current examples, and these examples don't favor giving these immigrants legality.
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What I am saying is that they should be let in but if they break a law (something like robbery, murder, rape etc.) then the US has a right to deport them. I won't deny that some illegal immigrants do break laws, but should not be representing all illegal immigrants.
Of course the US should be careful of who they let into the country, but those who really just want a better life probably don't have any intention to disrespect our country.should be let in.
Second, there is another way to get into the US legally, by having a legal US citizen let you in legally. This US citizen can go to the government and ask that you be let into the country. A way of getting acquainted with a legal citizen when you don't know anybody born in the US, is marriage.
Let's say Person A (from X country) has a friend, Person B (illegal immigrant). Person B marries Person C (native-born citizen) and Person C decides to give Person B legal status, so he?she does. Then Person B or Person C can bring Person A into the country legally.
Third, they wouldn't be bringing in disease if they could get medical treatment without it being incredibly expensive. It's already expensive enough for a legal citizens who have better paying jobs and more job opportunities. Plus it's hard to find an insurance company that doesn't care whether you're legal or not.
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"Of course the US should be careful of who they let into the country, but those who really just want a better life probably don't have any intention to disrespect our country.should be let in. "
The problem is, we have no way of telling if they come with good intention. If we deport them after they cause destruction, it's not going to do any good.
"Second, there is another way to get into the US legally, by having a legal US citizen let you in legally. This US citizen can go to the government and ask that you be let into the country. A way of getting acquainted with a legal citizen when you don't know anybody born in the US, is marriage.
Let's say Person A (from X country) has a friend, Person B (illegal immigrant). Person B marries Person C (native-born citizen) and Person C decides to give Person B legal status, so he?she does. Then Person B or Person C can bring Person A into the country legally. "
This is about illegal immigration. Legal immigration is fine.
"Third, they wouldn't be bringing in disease if they could get medical treatment without it being incredibly expensive. It's already expensive enough for a legal citizens who have better paying jobs and more job opportunities. Plus it's hard to find an insurance company that doesn't care whether you're legal or not. "
The medical treatment as of now isn't expensive, but if make these illegals legal, then it would be expensive, since many more of these immigrants will cross the border. This would increase the expenses.
Look at the examples of what legalizing these immigrants does. Look at Paris. Look at Germany.
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We don't know legal citizens have good intentions either, we don't jail them unless they've done something wrong.
Did we arrest John Wayne Gacy before he did his first crime? No. We could not have known what was coming,
I was answering Vaulk´s question on why there are more people coming into the country legally than ever
There really is no difference between legal and illegal immigration once you think about it. Illegal immigrants just can't meet the standards, they would immigrate legally if the could, but they can't. They got mixed in with those illegal immigrants that do migrate just for drugs, crime, and that stuff, you can't blame them.
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Not necessarily after they've committed the crime. If you see a person who just happens to be an illegal immigrants acting suspiciously, you can report them. Treat them like we would treat any person who acts suspiciously or commits crimes
You know just as well as I do that plenty of legal, native-born citizens commit crimes each day. there is no difference other than the consequences/punishment.
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"Illegal immigrants just can't meet the standards, they would immigrate legally if the could, but they can't. They got mixed in with those illegal immigrants that do migrate just for drugs, crime, and that stuff, you can't blame them."
Those standards that we impose on them protect us. It is true that not all illegals are bad, but if we give them an exception, then all the criminal illegals will come in too.
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http://www.heritage.org/immigration/commentary/what-the-media-wont-tell-you-about-illegal-immigration-and-criminal-activity
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Fox news. The dailywire. ROTFL. Are you trying to prove you're a troll?
1970-2010 ares with more immigration have more crime[1].
Immigrants have lower crime rates around 33% lower compared to natives[2].
[1]https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/immigrants-do-not-increase-crime-research-shows/
[2]https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/07/02/surprise-donald-trump-is-wrong-about-immigrants-and-crime/
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